Curse

Servant of Kali · Jan 20, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

It's general consensus that the playlevel of most PUGs is horrible. I dont mean bad, i mean, horrible.

What this game needs is more missions where W/Mo's will finally learn how to play the game. Otherwise, more and more people will keep playing with heroes.

The best mission in Nightfall is Moddock's Crevice. By far. This mission, like no other i've seen so far on all 3 continents, proves how bad (sorry, horrible) an average PUG is. But moreover, it teaches. Hopefully, eventually players who pass it with masters will learn. Unfortunately some requirements which are needed to get masters on this mission, should be standard requirements to even pass the mission. Lemme explain further what i mean.

Runners. Oh yes. Stopping 2 runners. For a PvPer this is a joke. Really. For PvErs, this is incredibly strange concept. Snares in PvE? A what? What is a snare? One feels like in RA when WMo chases you shouting "stand still u noob". Your group can have four melee players, and they might, just might, cripple one runner.

I dont like playing with heroes all the time, but honestly, if no friend or guildie is online, im forced to. Simple tasks which even heroes can do (disable non-cripple skills, give em target), seem to be such an obstacle for PUGs, that it's really not even amusing to fail so many missions.

/rant off

Diddy bow · Jan 20, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Sounds like a good idea

wammo training ftw! i wouldnt want missions to be fustritinly hard in a "fail cus of one screw up" way though

MithranArkanere · Jan 20, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

XD, when I first did that mission, I had already snares in my Hero builds, XD, they died no time, XD.

Yup, they should add more Zelda-like missions, with tricks and such.
They could also add some more puzzles.

Servant of Kali · Jan 20, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diddy bow

i wouldnt want missions to be fustritinly hard in a "fail cus of one screw up" way though

True

but i didnt suggest hardcore mission. Snaring 2 NPCs who stand still until u come so very close to them, is really not that difficult. The problem is that skill level in PvE is so low at the moment, that even so simple approach to mission is stumbling block for 80% of teams.

Orinn · Jan 21, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

I have yet to have those 2 stand still until I get close. I've seen them take off while they were still far outside the radar range. Still, having specific goals that involve learning basic gameplay is always a good idea...

Then again, have groups stopped charging the watchtowers in Riverside Province yet? Have they learned to pull off splits in THK and still guard the king? It's been years now, and I still see people complaining about those missions. It's why i do them with heros/henchies.

Maximumraver · Jan 21, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

XD, when I first did that mission, I had already snares in my Hero builds, XD, they died no time, XD.

Yup, they should add more Zelda-like missions, with tricks and such.
They could also add some more puzzles.

Zelda ftw

Faer · Jan 21, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

[skill]"You're All Alone!"[/skill]

Totally owns that bonus.

I agree, there need to be more PvE missions that introduce "complex" PvP tactics to players, not only to make them generally better at the game, but to increase ties and bonds between the two sides of the game.

Winterclaw · Jan 21, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Yes. And they need to be in a mission as difficult as the original THK!

Honestly, I suppose I would like some more missions with little tricks to them to teach pvers some more of them game and how things work in pvp. Maybe a few where the opponents have some nice skill combos or use them well together. Also the tricks like that first city mission in istan would be nice too every now and then.

Jeff Highwind · Jan 21, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Heh, another fun but alot more simpler mission was Dazah Vestibule. Playing it on my Ranger and Necro was a joke, but my War had the toughest time due to the first and final trials.

First Trial: 6 environment effects, 6 bosses. You know what to do...
-Or do you? Leroy that crap and you got popups of djinns on you in an instant. Best pulling lesson ever.

Second Trial: Know your Gods? Provie it or die!
-Say Hai to learning GW Lore. May be simple puzzles but some of the tricker ones are more ambiguous and make it look like it's 2 gods.

Third Trial: 4 numbered pedastals, 2 crystals, 8 numbered crystal holders
-Math 101, but this is still nice because it forces wamos to realize "WAIT, I can't tank...and I gotta think?"

Final Trial: 3 bosses, all deal double damage. Worst of all, one is a SF Spammar with half casting time.
-But wait, they are not a group but individual units. Ready the Flatbow for another pulling/damage mitigation lesson!

Bonus: 3 keys, 3 chests, 3 treasures, 3 headaches.
-Funny how the keys were displaced from their intended chests, so you have to either run back to the original chest location (memorization) or take keys in advance.

I loved Vestibule ALOT, it was so Zelda-esque in it's execution. Guild Wars 4 needs to be more like this.

LONGA · Jan 21, 2007, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Remember Shengjia Monastry's Dojo quest? Those should put into primary quest instead.That quest give me a lot of basic when I play GW the first time.Also telling me that with right build you can kick any high lvl PvE mob butt.

Water Angel · Jan 21, 2007, 10:15 AM // 10:15

think it would be kinda useless all.

dun forget 95% of wammos and noobs and persudaded to the point they are leet and will just skip the tutorial mission/dun bother read the stuff.or rush though without think.

Diddy bow · Jan 21, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Angel

think it would be kinda useless all.

dun forget 95% of wammos and noobs and persudaded to the point they are leet and will just skip the tutorial mission/dun bother read the stuff.or rush though without think.

...and be stuck on (insert noob island here) forever, because of anti running gates missions are neccesery and mission puzzles and thing would need to be team based rather than one guy with a brain(like where the team has to split to catch the scouts)

Vinraith · Jan 21, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

/signed

It not only encourages the, shall we say "less than gifted" to elevate their level of play, it encourages all of us to step out of our comfort zones and think a bit about the best way to handle a situation. The more of that that's in the game, the better.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jan 21, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

/signed

Masters was fun in that mission... I actually tried to see if other people can snare and kill a runner. Doesn't work. So I replaced my Res siggy, my self heal, my IAS, with Shove (I have all Core, Prophecies, Factions and most of NF skills for W/R (Yes, even the Marksmanship ones)), Hamstring, and Sprint. I gave Zhed Deep Freeze (Zhed's my fav hero xD). When I got there, I told him to snare them both with it. I then rushed in, Hamstringed one (for 16 seconds), left him, Shoved the other, Dual SF'ed him thanks to Sousuke and Zhed, Sprinted after the other guy when he died, and filled him with 5 high powered adrenaline attacks

. Took a bit longer at the hunger but I still got it

Guild Terror · Jan 21, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

zelda ftfw!!!

Antheus · Jan 21, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

That is one of worst implemented missions in entire GW.

The triggers are all over the place, quest objectives don't update, and masters depends on knowing (or getting lucky) on the runner's spawn - otherwise they start off never giving you a chance to catch up.

Add to that the fact that you need to bring dunkoro (mission that requires snares forces you to bring a healer?), along with his dialog updating about 1 minute after you've triggered particular event (or not at all), and it's a disaster.

Then, after all is said and done, you get to deal with archers on a bridge, which shows the disaster of GW's engine with its lack of proper Z-axis. As an added bonus, minions now get permanently stuck on bridge since one of the recent updates.

I'd vote that mission for the worst of all, simply due to horrible implementation. It's right there with Divinity coast and villagers (for bonus) that get ganked by 12 tengus while still outside radar range.

bhavv · Jan 21, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

[skill]"You're All Alone!"[/skill]

Totally owns that bonus.

I agree, there need to be more PvE missions that introduce "complex" PvP tactics to players, not only to make them generally better at the game, but to increase ties and bonds between the two sides of the game.

So did this:

[skill]Water Trident[/skill] [skill]Deep Freeze[/skill]

I love this mission because it finally gave me a reason to play water elem.

MithranArkanere · Jan 22, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

I'd vote that mission for the worst of all, simply due to horrible implementation. It's right there with Divinity coast and villagers (for bonus) that get ganked by 12 tengus while still outside radar range.

We are not dealing with the implementation, but about the idea of 'use your brains' missions.

One with a random code that you have to decypher would be great.

mariano · Jan 22, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

In my view, all games which I have played are far far far away from a minimal Artifical Intelligence to have fun playing with NPCs.

Now days elite NPCs use to be monsters, this means they have: super-health, super-armor, super-skills... or are many in number.

I would like computer's game AI where like the chess software AI. In chess, computers have brough a new era, as now players can train and learn very well with a computer and a not very expensive chess program as if they were playing with a Chess Master. Notice, that the player and the computer play both with the same rules of chess, different inteligence but same rules.

Have a good time.